Honoring George Floyd’s Life: Conversations Around This Catalytic Moment

Certain happenings can provoke a reaction and require response… conversations are no longer intellectual dithering but become calls to action. Join hosts, Jeff Smith and Dr. Rebecca Corbin, as we welcome Kristen Golden of VentureWell and Jacen Greene of Portland State University to the studio to honor George Floyd’s life and explore how this catalytic moment impacted organizations and people. Prepare for an emotionally charged and raw discussion as we search for a way forward in creating a more inclusive and just society. 

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Transcript

Honoring George Floyd’s Life: Conversations Around This Cata...

Wed, 8/25 9:54AM • 34:37

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, conversations, jason, murder, jeff, entrepreneurship, organizations, equity, work, community, george, becky, venture, places, leaning, important, feel, psu, white, understand

SPEAKERS

Jeff Smith, Kristen Golden, Jacen Greene, Rebecca Corbin

Rebecca Corbin  00:02

Welcome to making our way forward a podcast where we share compelling life stories and learn from the experience of everyday entrepreneurs. At Macy, we celebrate diversity and invite you to join the conversation. As we talk to entrepreneurs and leaders from all walks of life. We hope that by telling their stories, we bring you inspiration, empower you to take action, and ignite entrepreneurship in your community.

Jeff Smith  00:40

So welcome to making our way forward. I'm Jeff Smith, Director of innovation and equity here in AC and I am also joined by my co host. That's Rebecca Corbin, President and CEO of Macy's. So we're excited to be here. We're also joined by two wonderful guests, Kristen golden and Jason green, Kristen catalyzes, new initiatives of venture will at the intersection of program development, and strategic fundraising. She has Callie with her colleague Shaheen of venture wills initiative to build more equitable and inclusive pathways in science and tech innovation, and entrepreneurship. They're also co authors of the 2020 venture where report advancing equity, dynamic strategies for authentic engagement and innovation and entrepreneurship. Kristin, we are so happy for you to be here excited for you to be so excited for this conversation. Thank you. Yes, we also have Jason green. He is co founder and assistant director of PSU homelessness research and action collaborative, a multidisciplinary research center dedicated to addressing issues related to homelessness. He previously designed and managed Social Innovation Program programs and PSU School of Business and as an instructor's speaker and author on social entrepreneurship. So Jason, thank you for being here as well. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So I'm super excited about this conversation. Becky, and I have been talking about this and are really excited for you to be here. So I'll just start us off with I want to ask this question. So what is bought us all together today is the word that our organizations are doing around diversity, equity and inclusion. So we are a few weeks out from the guilty party that has come down and the George floor murder case. While many of our organizations have been involved with the word prior to George Flores case, I want to ask you are, in what ways, if any, has this horrific event, been a catalyst in your organization's to propel you on into this work?

Kristen Golden  02:55

Go ahead. Adventure. Well, we and we've fund in train and support early stage innovators, and also faculty who work in science and tech, innovation and entrepreneurship. And central had made a commitment to organizational commitment to really start to go deep on diversity, equity and inclusion. And we have been doing some work for a while. And we had actually done, commissioned a national study on best practices in this in this field around equity and inclusion. And we were in the middle of writing that report when George Floyd was murdered, and we sort of ground to a halt. And one of our beloved colleagues, Mr. Youssef, who was a young African American man, brought to the organization, a way to start to process what had happened, and to understand how, how moving and devastating this murder was. So what he did was he pulled together the whole staff and zoom and played the audio of George Floyd's murder, along with it, just a black screen and a timer. So we could see how long that was. And we all sat in our feelings. And we're just, you know, hit in the gut in in in such a powerful way. And Samara had framed how this felt for him before we watched it. And then we went from that full staff zoom into small breakout rooms. And everybody started to speak from the heart. And from there, how they were so impacted by understanding much more deeply. And so even for people who couldn't figure out why this was related to our work, were suddenly at the table and open in a way that we had never experienced before. And so from that, we started doing bi monthly conversations around issues of race, and they were led primarily by white staff. primarily for waitstaff, people of color were invited but not required or expected to come and do that work. And we followed that pattern of setting up some information. We have some pre work to do in different formats, and then really letting people come to the table by showing some powerful video or art that got us into that place where it wasn't got us out of our heads. And we've continued to do that throughout this year, and into the future, I'm sure.

Jeff Smith  05:32

The base Krista, I will pose that question to Jason as well.

Jacen Greene  05:39

I think what it did was it, it accelerated a lot of conversations we are already having at Portland State. psu a black man had been murdered by our campus safety A few years ago, Jason Washington. And it was just, it was the most horrific and immediate event for us on campus. Learning about that, and seeing that as part of a, you know, a larger pattern across the nation. So we've been having these conversations at PSU and the campus community been really affected by this. And I think what happened with George Floyd was that it accelerated these conversations, I think people maybe who hadn't been engaging as much before, began to see the pattern of this, these these, this pattern of murders across the country and begin to realize how frequent they were. And I think, like Kristin was saying, you know, being able to see it happen, made people realize how horrific it was, and how horrific so many of these murders by police have been. So I feel like we were already talking about these issues. But George Floyd's murder accelerated the conversation pushed people to begin thinking about it more deeply. And I think it it pushed a lot of white people in leadership like me, to begin listening better, to really sit down and listen and begin to also feel some more of that, that grief around what's happening. And I think that is really critical. Again, as Kristin was saying, just being able to feel some of that grief as an individual and in your organization. That's something that I haven't often seen at White dominant organizations, or even in my family growing up being allowed to feel grief openly. And I think there's a transformative aspect to that being accepting of that thing. It's okay to grieve about this. And we can grieve together. And I think it shifts the tone of the conversation. Thank you, Jason. Big Love to hear you.

Rebecca Corbin  07:58

Just taking all of this in. And, Jeff, thank you for organizing this and thinking of the topic, I really love the work that venture well is doing I'm very happy that we're able to align together. And one of the things, you know, that I've been doing the people that I've been interviewing for the podcast to I've been asking them that question. And, you know, I think we all kind of come at it from our personal experiences. And I know for me, I was so afraid that the verdict was not going to come back as guilty. And I just worried about that. And we were trying to do our work. And then all of a sudden, the verdict came back guilty. And I just started crying. I thought, Oh, my goodness, there there is justice, it does not even begin to solve any of the problems, but it plants a seed of hope. And as Jeff and I and Natalia have spoken about it with other people, I think, you know, sadly, the murders continue. And and so you know, you don't really know how to feel you feel hopeful, but then you feel horrified as as you all described. But I think what we try to do, I'm making our way forward is thinking about the path forward. And Kristen, you had talked about the importance of art, and I love Jason, how you speak George George legs name, and I didn't realize until the last year how important that was. Um, and the thing that keeps haunting me, I guess, if you will, is that with George Floyd, he was calling out for his mother. And I'm sorry, I, I can't even imagine as a mother, someone doing that to my child. So I think we have a lot of work to do. But I think what's cool partners like you both and leaders like Jeff, we're going to tackle this. And we're going to have conversations that sometimes make us very sad. But we have to keep going.

Jeff Smith  10:13

Thank you for that, Becky. So Becky said this. For many of us, this has also been very personal. So I would love to pose the question. So we thought about this in terms of our organizations, but to make this more personal and ask, and what ways, if any, has this news, and these events of social unrest and follow? How has it been catalytic in your personal life and your own personal commitment to equity?

Jacen Greene  10:54

Yeah, I'm happy to talk about that not happy and willing to address that. Let me restate that. I feel like the sort of the uprisings, you know, are an echo of what I saw with with Michael Brown in Ferguson. And that's really, when I first began, I think, to be aware of this and started to pay attention. And for me, personally, it's one thing to read about it. And it's another as a white man to start watching the videos of predominantly black men, but black and brown men and women getting murdered by police. And I think, you know, you can read the statistics and see how frequent it is. And then you watch the videos, and you feel something completely different. And I felt like I needed to see these videos, to understand emotionally, just some some part of that, and for me, as an individual, that, that transformed my understanding of the issue. And it you begin to feel that grief and that rage, and that sense of incredible urgency. I mean, you know, you're just talking about how many people have been murdered by the police to since the George Floyd verdict, it has to stop and, and there is no time to lose, and we have to, we have to move quickly. And we have to move strongly. And we have to move together to have these conversations and make these changes and start to transform what's happening. And I think it's that sense of, of urgency as an individual that I began to feel and I began to, to understand more of

Jeff Smith  12:46

us, Jason.

Kristen Golden  12:50

My background is actually in equity and inclusion, anti violence work, I am actually new to science and technology and innovation and entrepreneurship. And I came in to venture Well, sort of through that, that path where they were starting to do this work and asked me to work on a federal grant with them. And I never left, I love it there. But at the time of actually, of Michael Brown's murder, I was working at a national nonprofit that looked at the well being of the most marginalized people, particularly those, all the systems, whether it's around poverty, or or prison systems, and we worked a lot with the criminal justice system. And we were working in St. Louis at the time. So we we knew people who were involved, both in the criminal justice system as officers, as has people in the courts who treated people so terribly, and what, what continues to come home to me, and what makes us so painful, is the systematic dehumanization of black people. And I have made a commitment from the time I was in my early 20s. to just learn and learn and learn and learn and understand the history and, and read. You know, works, historical works and other books, he films follow a lot of leaders and social media. And at the time I was read at the time of her I was reading Isabel Wilkerson's the warmth of other suns. And it's about the migration of black people from the south to the north. And what was in it, and it's, it's beautifully written, it's told in stories that she's a journalist, it's incredibly powerful. But what was so devastating was how many times this has happened in how many ways on how systemic it is. And, you know, she talked about Emmett Till, and he was just one of hundreds of stories that she told about how black men particularly have And murdered either by law enforcement or allowed to be murdered by, you know, townspeople, whoever the Klan. And and I would say one other turning point for me was going to an end to go into a training on how to conduct conversations around anti racism and around racism. And what we did was there were sheets hung up all around the room that were blank, and at the top of each had had a topic like education or careers, or, you know, whatever it was, neighborhoods, things like that, and asked everybody to go around and write down every single incident that you knew about in history, where people of color had been harmed in in that particular issue area. And, and, you know, they were filled, that were filled and walking around the room and then being in that room for two more days. And feeling the weight that is carried by people of color all the time, was another like really transformative moment for me to just, like, really just sit with how much energy and how much potential is lost to that energy. And I, you know, I've experienced some of that as a lesbian, and in our community that have been murders and other things that have discrimination that has happened, and knowing when I'm safe, and when I'm not saved, and you know, sort of checking out what's going on and trying to keep my children safe. I can connect on that level, but just the weight of it just feels massive, and, and, and keeps me going and wanting to learn more and more and more. It's almost Christian, you always make me cry, Jeff,

Rebecca Corbin  16:52

what a blessing it is. But how hard it is to have these conversations because you kind of really you crack yourself open. And you're right, you know, the world can can, you know, not always receive that in the way that it's meant to be. But, Jeff, I wanted to share if you don't mind really quickly, just a memory that has come back to me more recently, as a child, you know, growing up in the 70s, I remember as a little child watching that series roots out Huxley and I remember the impact of, of how horrifying it was. And where we lived in Akron, Ohio, our neighbors next door were African American, and we love them, like we went over to their house. And they took my little brother Jeff to baseball games. And I just couldn't understand as a tiny child, the inhumanity of that. And I think about that, like, you know, fast forward decades later as an adult, and to see how we haven't come as far as we need to come and and as hard as it is to watch those things. And as horrifying as it was to watch the murder of George Floyd. I think it's important, even if it makes us cry it it spurs us to action. And I think that we can't be in that place where we sit on the sidelines anymore. And particularly with all of us on this call, you know, we're affiliated with national organizations doing very deep work, and how can we use that platform in such a way to call people out and to have good people like Jeff and Kristin and Jason and Telly on this call to do more and to take action. And that's what I spend a lot of time thinking about. And I'm just grateful to have this this very authentic conversation with you all.

Jeff Smith  18:48

Thank you so much, Becky. I love everything that you all said. And one of the things that I think is a really has been central to the work that Jason and Kristen are doing is to think about those kind of catalytic moments that drive us into action. And so there is reconciliation practitioner, her name is Brenda, McNeil psalters. And she she says that in light of moving towards identification, awareness and then reconciliation. She defines these catalytic events as painful, but necessary experiences that happens to individuals and organizations that serve to jumpstart the reconciliation process. So just like Becky said, although we we lament, and as necessary, that lament oftentimes turns into creativity and vision for actually trying to pursue and solve these problems and I'll have to be 100% honest, one of the things I love About nicey and and you all have heard me say this before about Becky is not just because she's here, we'll see is literally she is a real transformational leader, she creates space for people for growth and development and, and this space where you can literally bring your whole self to the table. And I think that is super important for when we are trying to engage with this work because there's a whole self process, mind, body, spirit and soul is necessary to be able to engage in this work and to be sustained in this work. And so with that, Krista, I want to ask you, can you explain the origin of the project that you Jason and I, along with other colleagues are working on?

Kristen Golden  20:47

Sure. Thanks. So adventure? Well, we commissioned this national study that I mentioned earlier, to get a sense of who is already doing the work, what's out there, and what kind of role can venture well play as, as a facilitator. So we Shaheen, Mama Walla, and I co wrote this report, we put it out there, and it has a framework of action areas that folks can take in their organization, wherever they are, to move themselves forward. And we we disseminated it through all the usual places, and we did some we did a series of webinars on the topics and we, we've done a number of presentations and conferences, and what we've been hearing from people is that, while the framework isn't like mind blowing, it's it's, it's practical, and it's helpful. And so people are using it. And then we thought, what would be great, in addition to sort of promoting these voices, would be if we went out to the community and ask people, what are some things that either you're doing, or you want to do, or you want to have, like a product or tool or something that would help advance any one of these action areas that would help our community be able to, to jump in. And one of the places we were struggling, where we were hearing from white male leaders, particularly, particularly ones who have been doing this for a long time that they just even though we have this blueprint in the report, they just didn't know how to enter the space, and they didn't know how to how to not do it wrong, if you Well, you know, they're afraid of messing up, or they didn't quite get it. And so I immediately thought of Jason has been a white ally for a number of years. And I've heard him present at places and I thought that he had a good handle on how to how white men particularly can be in this space in an appropriate and respectful way. So I reached out to him, and he suggested that we also include some other folks. And so we have one, but Arthur and yourself, Jeff, and what we've had these astonishing conversations, and Kmart, you know, we started talking about, well, maybe we can do some case studies of how each of you kind of got got into this work or got moved forward. And then the conversations were so deep and powerful that we ended up coming up with the idea of each of you communicating a catalytic event that propelled you, in this work at a at a deeper, more authentic level, in the hopes that it would inspire other people to do the same and to think about it, to figure out what their catalytic event might be a maybe it's this, maybe it's reading what, what you all do. And we're also trying to figure out how to get an artistic element into it. Jeff, you suggested a collage, you know, some way to to get that visceral response. But I think thank you all should describe the kind of how how you're coming together. But this will be put together in some some form that will be shared out into the community, probably over the summer, early fall,

Jeff Smith  23:46

as Chris and Jason asked you really quickly to what kind of led you into this, or what why would you want to be a part of this project?

Jacen Greene  23:59

Yeah, you know, it's talking a little bit about my personal reaction to what had been happening across the country. And you Kristen talked about the systemic nature of it. And I think for me, that was a really important realization was that if, if this is not just a few bad cops, but this is caused by systemic racism, that is across our society, and has essentially been embedded there by and for the benefit of people like me, what role then do I have in perpetuating or dismantling that because it's really only one or the other? If I'm not dismantling it, I'm I'm by default perpetuating it. And so that made me think really hard about my own role and my responsibility to myself and my family and my community, to the programs I ran that a students I taught, you know, to the places I worked. And so, you know, I personally feel like I have a lifelong commitment to moving On this path, I don't feel like it's something you ever as a white person, get it or get there. But I think it's something that you can work on your whole life and hopefully make progress on. And so for me working on sort of, you know, dismantling white supremacist elements of the courses, I teach in the programs, I manage the research projects, I'm part of, you know, the departments and colleges, I interact with at PSU. And then looking more widely at sort of the the entrepreneurship networks or communities that I'm part of has been really important to me to find a way to contribute to that. So this was, for me, a way to continue doing that work to continue my own learning, and my own journey, and then hopefully, to contribute something that, that maybe other white people will see themselves in and can help them maybe step up more, or can, you know, encourage others to get me to step up more, in moving this work forward together.

Jeff Smith  26:00

Wow. Thanks, Jason. Thank you. Why do you think collaboration is like this are important?

Rebecca Corbin  26:08

That's a good question, Jeff. I think, together, I don't think there's any problem that we can't solve. But if we want to go it alone, I just don't think that that's the way to solve these systemic problems. And I think we can also understand each other's stories more when I hear Jason talk, I think about my husband of 25 years, who's a white man and my father, who is also like, man, and I think about the importance of these conversations. You know, they're both people that care very deeply about humanity. But, you know, how do we make it a safer environment? For those who maybe are allies, that could be even greater allies, or people who have been socialized? To show that it's not always, you know, acceptable to display certain emotions? certain ones are? Okay, I think it's a complicated process. But I, I just wanted to say, and I'm not just saying this, because you both work for venture well, but, you know, one person I gotten to know and I really respect is, you know, Phil weilerstein, who, you know, is obviously the CEO venture well, and I shared this with Jeff, I followed his work, not only in STEM, but was at a conference a couple of years ago. And I, I saw Phil leaving, and I said, Well, you know, where are you going, and he said, he was going out to try to find a yoga studio. And I don't know why that was so important. It was just, it just gave me kind of insight, because I see him as a very sort of intelligent, thoughtful person who's always observing and, and, you know, to the point about, you know, partnership, I know, in my journey with nisi, which is in my seventh year, you know, I want to align with like minded people like you on this call with funders that meet our value system, we had a conversation about this the other day, um, you know, if it's money that's available to us, that doesn't align with our values, I'm not interested in that, you know, we'll figure out another way to fund a project. And I think having these conversations and having these deep friendships that are not based on our roles, or on our titles, or on our degree of education, or lack thereof, it leans into the humanity. And I think, Jeff, that's what George Lloyd was denied. So I think moving forward, we need to have more conversations like this, I'm excited to see what we'll do together as friends and colleagues and citizens of the world. Thank you so much.

Kristen Golden  28:47

I just want to say real quick that Phil is the CEO and he has been leading this work. And he has been leaning in and he has stumbled internally and externally and bless his heart keeps going, and I just want to give a shout out to to his willingness to put himself out there and to really lead this organization and we have held his feet to the fire quite a bit and, and he's, we can see such growth and we see him starting to really call out his peers. But you know, you'd like if you think you're running a successful program, and it's predominantly white, you're not running a successful program and like he's in a position to lean on his peers and make even more impact and has been very active and supportive of the work that we're doing at pintscher. Well, so.

Jeff Smith  29:40

Thanks, Krista. We and I see one of the things we talk a lot about is the entrepreneurial leadership being a catalyst for for healing. We actually had a framework for entrepreneurship, entrepreneurial leadership and the catalyst for racial and ethnic 11 community health and economic vitality. So It's amazing to be able to work with people who have both, again, a heart and a mind to be able to put action and to what we feel. And what we talk about. So this has been an amazing conversation, I think is one that is going to be a catalyst for many, many more, just like the project that we're working on is going to give us an opportunity to respond to a moment to maximize that, indeed, in meaningful ways is not lost on us. But as literally propelling us into a place where we are leaning into that transformation that we all know and feel that we should be pursuing. And I see each one of you as lies and people who have the capacity and the willingness to do that with all that you are. So with that said, we want to share any final thoughts or any words of encouragement that you might want to give out to people who are kind of leaning into this work, who are trying to better their communities better their surroundings, and see equity and justice as, as a reality, and their organizations and the places that they move, live in work. So I'll extend that to everyone.

Jacen Greene  31:16

I think one thing that I try and remind myself of a lot when I stumble because I certainly stumble quite a bit in this work is that it's an opportunity whenever somebody calls me out whenever they're kind enough to call me out in whatever way they choose to do. So it's an opportunity for me to learn and grow. And it's okay for me to not get it, it's okay for me to, to have to work at it. And it's it really is a lifelong process. So I don't have to be perfect at this, I'm never going to be perfect. All I have to do is keep making progress and maintain that commitment.

Kristen Golden  31:49

I agree, I would say no matter where you are in the process, no matter what your identity is, are, listen, listen to the people who are impacted, don't respond with but but you know, just listen and sit with it. And really do as much work as you can on your own to understand the history to understand why someone might approach this differently. Don't Don't just sort of go with media headlines that are trying to be provocative and trying to get people to to continue to feel divided and unsafe, but to just listen and be with people in their humanity, bring your own and be open. It's just,

Rebecca Corbin  32:33

that's beautiful. The only thing I would add to that is do something every single day. It's just reading an article or putting something out there into the world that brings light and hope and love into the world. There is so much darkness and there but there's far more good I think then there are, you know, challenges stuff we all did a little bit every single day imagine where we would end up.

Jeff Smith  33:04

Thank you so much, Becky. Well, that is brings us to the end of our podcast. Thank you for helping us to make our way forward, as we think through some really serious issues, but we lean into hope as we see ourselves as both learners and problem solvers. Thank you so much for joining us. We hope the listening to this podcast will help you to explore the many ways we might define entrepreneurship. Join us every other Wednesday for more episodes as we celebrate opportunity. learn from one another and grow together. Subscribe to this podcast connect with us on social media and learn more about today's speakers@macys.com forward slash podcast. We look forward to making our way forward together with you.

Rebecca Corbin  33:57

Have you heard about our latest book impact Ed, how Community College entrepreneurship creates equity and prosperity. This is our roadmap for building back better in 50 states and globally. In each chapter, we share the inspiring stories of everyday entrepreneurs and explain how community colleges play a crucial role in their success. Visit us@naec.com slash impact add to order your copy now and join us in this work.